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( 11 comments — Leave a comment )
irishkate
Nov. 24th, 2013 11:19 am (UTC)
What about your reaction.....
mcbadger
Nov. 24th, 2013 12:05 pm (UTC)
Exactly what I was wondering!
daniel_saunders
Nov. 24th, 2013 01:11 pm (UTC)
Thanks for linking to me!
raycun
Nov. 24th, 2013 01:28 pm (UTC)
Lots of fan service, and good in parts, but didn't make sense to me.
From earlier episodes, and the prequel short, it seemed that the problem with the war between the Time Lords and the Daleks was the collateral damage. The Doctor intervened, killing both sides, to save the rest of the universe - cue massive guilt for wiping out his own race.
In this episode, the Daleks were winning. The Time Lords were about to be wiped out anyway. The Doctor kills all the Time Lords so he can kill all the Daleks at the same time. Why the massive guilt? Why did the pilot in the prequel short hate and fear Time Lords?
unwholesome_fen
Nov. 25th, 2013 03:52 pm (UTC)
As to why the guilt, doesn't that rather depend on one's ethical system? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem for example.

I'm not sure I understand the last question - surely it's that same collateral damage that's making people hate the Time Lords?
raycun
Nov. 26th, 2013 08:50 am (UTC)
this review gets to the problem nicely
http://lucidfrenzy.blogspot.ie/2013/11/doctor-who-day-of-doctor.html

"It's been established and re-established that the Time War made the Time Lords as terrible as the Daleks. As late as the 'Night of the Doctor' minisode, which went out barely a week before the episode itself, this was still the case. The pilot reacts to the classic “bigger on the inside” line not as a promise but a threat, and unhesitatingly chooses death over rescue. (A moment which is, quite honestly, stronger than anything which happens in the actual episode.)
All of which is swept away in a puff of feelgood. Their mutual animosity is no longer threatening the universe. The Time Lords, now chiefly represented by children, are instead under unprovoked Dalek attack – in some Pearl Harbour moment. Their High Command regard the Doctor as a bit of an unpredictable maverick, but that's about the worst thing you can say of them."

One could imagine a Doctor who is haunted by his failure to save Gallifrey in the Time War, or that he had to destroy Gallifrey (hours before the Daleks did it) in order to destroy the Daleks. And that seems to be the new continuity (but really the Doctor only thought he failed to save Gallifrey, and now he knows better)
But that's less interesting than a Doctor who is haunted by the fact that he had to destroy his own people (and the Daleks) in order to stop them from destroying the universe. Which is what the story seemed to be, right up to Saturday evening.
unwholesome_fen
Nov. 26th, 2013 01:54 pm (UTC)
I'm not convinced - in the episode, the Time Lords say that they've already used all of the forbidden weapons except one (the Moment - and the only reason they haven't used that is that it has a conscience, which kind of implies that their own haven't been holding them back), so they've likely already caused a lot of collateral damage (presumably all those extra invasions of earth etc. have still happened, for example), and the rest of the universe doesn't know what they're still capable of (and particularly doesn't know that they've run out of weapons too terrible to ever use). There's also the ultimate sanction that Rassilon is intending to use as a last resort (as described in an earlier episode). So the fear is rather justified, isn't it? The fact that the doctor didn't actually have to destroy Gallifrey to prevent it is what's changed, though he won't know that until he reaches the current point in his timeline. It is possibly a flaw in the story that the empty arsenal of forbidden WMDs and its implications isn't brought more to the fore, but it is certainly there.
raycun
Nov. 26th, 2013 04:26 pm (UTC)
At the point when the Doctor intervenes they are a threat to nobody, the only threat is from the Daleks. And there's no suggestion in this episode that the Doctor opposed the Time Lords at any point in the war. He may not have been a soldier, but if he fought it was on their side, as far as we can see. The generals are not reacting as to someone who was frequently thwarted their plans, the Daleks are.
unwholesome_fen
Nov. 26th, 2013 05:44 pm (UTC)
Without the Doctors intervention, the Time Lords will go on to kill all other life in the universe as a last resort - that has already been established - so they are certainly a threat. Of course the Doctor may not know this, since he only hears of the plan later in his timeline (though presumably he must know that it's something they have the power to do), but presumably both he and the rest of the universe have reason to fear what they might be capable of.

As to what the Doctor has done up to then in the war - we have no information either way, though his history would suggest a lot of sneaking into Dalek facilities and sabotaging things. But what about all those WMDs - wouldn't he have tried to minimise their effects when the Time Lords deployed them? Obviously if he does it well enough, neither side would know he's been there when things don't go according to plan.
mizkit
Nov. 24th, 2013 03:53 pm (UTC)
These are lovely and I've enjoyed reading them but it is YOUR reaction I keep reloading my friends page for!
irishkate
Nov. 24th, 2013 06:21 pm (UTC)
This picture of Nine makes it look like he has a huge afro and long earring....
( 11 comments — Leave a comment )

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